NSG’s David Lancaster caught up with Paul Hemmings, a one-time member of The La’s and The Lightning Seeds, to talk about writing The La’s Album, playing Top of the Pops, and sharing a stage with Charles Dickens, albeit 150 years apart! He is also the co-founder of Liverpool’s Viper Record Label.

DL: Hi mate, thanks again for the interview. Why the guitar Paul, and why music? What made you first pick up that instrument, where, when, and how did it all start for you ??

PH: From an early age I was always hearing music. My mum loved The Beatles, The Beach Boys, and those classic 60’s songs such as ‘River Deep Mountain High’ by Ike & TinaTurner, ‘Bad Moon Rising’ by Creedence Clear Water Revival, Roberta Flack ‘ Roberta Flack and ‘Satisfaction’ by the Rolling Stones, etc.  She always had the radio on and played those records constantly, so my mum is to thank for my love of music. (If you’re looking down ‘Thank you so much, Mum’). I think I remember seeing The Beatles on TV but I might have just been imagining that.  There was a small kids guitar knocking around the house probably bought one Xmas and I do remember tuning a few strings so they sounded the same, that’s how it all started.

DL:  So mid to late 80s, you were in legendary Liverpool band The La’s, WOW !!!, How did you end up in one of England’s most iconic bands ?

PH: I had been in quite a few school and college bands. One that comes to mind was called Disciple Red 7 with Keith Curtis from A Witness, and two girls, sisters, Jane on drums and Diane on vocals. We performed the Suicide song ‘Frankie Teardrop’ at a college talent contest and came last! Being at college opened my ears and eyes to different types of music, plus there was quite a good scene going on around that time in the midlands. Bands like The Mighty Lemon Drops, The Nightingales, The Very Things, A Witness, and The Three Johns, plus my girlfriend at the time booked bands for the further education college, so I saw Lloyd Cole and The Commotions, Marc Riley and The Creepers, The Higsons and The Membranes just to name a few. I got to know John Robb from The Membranes as he had gone to the same college as me. I actually bought my first Gretsch guitar from him which I used in The La’s, thanks, John! Our musical paths have always crossed as I played on the Membranes Kiss Ass, Godhead album, played in his dance band Sensurround, started Gold Blade with him, and worked on various songs together in the last decade. After leaving college in 1985, I returned to Liverpool, which was in a total recession. The city was falling to pieces and had a dark shadow hanging over it. “Decayed grandeur” I like to call it now. I happened to look in a job centre window (near Penny Lane) and saw a notice which said get paid to teach kids to play an instrument. John Power from who later founded the band Cast and played bass in The La’s saw the same advert and applied. This scheme was set up by a family who somehow had managed to get the finance from the EEC. It was based in an old building in town which had a victorian lecture theatre at the back, (it’s where they used to dissect bodies for medical lecturers in the 1890’s, plus Charles Dickens did some readings there too) in which you performed your cover versions of songs to the other musicians on the scheme, before going out to youth clubs to play them. We pretty much dissected those songs also in our own way! Also on this scheme was Tommy Scott who founded the band Space (I became good friends with him from that day) and Mike Badger who had already formed The La’s (I knew Mike through mutual friends anyway and we’d got stoned listening to The Cramps and Psychic TV). I’d actually seen The La’s play on the 24th of May 1986, my Birthday, at a house party in a big, crumbling mansion around Sefton Park. I thought the songs were amazing and a light almost shone over Lee. He was a cross between looking like Brian Jones and playing like Bob Dylan. John Power who was soon to become The La’s new Bassist. John provided the audience as all his mates had nothing else to do and wanted to get stoned somewhere else other than at home. Lee tried to get on the scheme but was too late, like I said, The La’s had already been formed by Mike and Lee Mavers, they continually played gigs around Liverpool and my band The Twangin’ Banjos, played on the bill with them quite a few times. At the time Mike and Lee both fronted the band taking turns to sing their songs, but this is where the problems started, it was a band with two lead singers (a two-headed beast), and Lee, I think didn’t want to play Mike’s songs anymore. After saying that, Lee and Mike co-wrote songs together and those songs are fantastic.  After an argument at a soundcheck, Mike left, and as I was in the right place at the right time I got asked to join. Within a week, I was playing gigs all over Liverpool. Lee had to write and songs had to be finished off (as the set was now short with Mike leaving and taking his songs with him) and we rehearsed in the stables at my mum and dad’s house. Every day, me, John and Lee worked on the songs. I always had an advantage being the first guitarist after Mike left, as Mike was a singer/songwriter and not a guitarist. He is now but not then. This meant I was able to bring various riffs etc to the table. Most of the songs we know and love today were written in the stables, songs like ‘There She Goes‘, ‘Way Out’, ‘Timeless Melody‘, ‘Over‘, ‘Knock Me Down‘ and ‘Feelin’, I feel very proud and honoured to have had a small input. Of course, the first La’s big tour was exciting but that wasn’t the problem, as I soon found out. It was recording these songs that was going to be the problem. I found this out years later in 1999 when Mike and I worked with Lee once again.

Photo Credit: (Jake Summerton)

DL: You were part of that first big La’s tour. Any standout shows and any funny stories from the road ??

PH: Probably, a stand out show for me was one of the ones at the Flying Picket as the whole band seemed to be as one and the audience could feel this. One of those magical moments, I felt like the whole band levitated above the stage, but that could have just been the pot! Another was at the Marquee Club in London because it was a legendary venue with everyone who had played there in the past. It wasn’t a particularly good gig but it was the Marquee and it sold out. Funny stories? I can’t think of any tour ones but I know Lee wanted Beefheart to produce the album at some point. The La’s manager phoned up Virgin records (Beefheart’s final label) asking for a contact number, the Virgin rep said ‘If you find him, please let me know as we have £30k in royalties for him. At the time he lived out in the Mojave desert and was painting.

DL: You left just before the La’s album got released, we all know those songs had been around for like 5 years or so, what did you think of Steve Lillywhite’s production on that album? it’s well documented that the band weren’t too happy with it?

PH: I had been around these songs for so many years now, plus I must have seen the band 40 times before I joined them. For me, when you first write something and then record it, it has something special, but not so much after 5 years. Some of the original demos are where it’s at, Lee’s voice and the sound of the instruments are amazing. I know Steve Lillywhite would have been told to listen to those tapes. I think Steve did the best he could under the circumstances but I don’t like a lot of the performances, and the vocals sound weak to me, as Lee says, ‘it was a croak’. The band walked out after a few months, so Steve was left to do what he could. I personally can’t listen to that album.

The La’s Photo credit: (Jake Summerton)

DL: After the La’s you and Mike were in The Onset, do you think that band should have had a bit more success? (Coincidentally, my old tutor from art college, Martin is Colin Becket’s dad, small world eh). 

PH: The Onset, yeah, maybe that band should have had a bit more success, but that wasn’t what it was about. We wanted to experiment with country music and I needed to try different things musically. We released a lot of great material, toured Germany (one of the first bands to play in east Germany, going through Checkpoint Charlie at midnight. It felt like being in a spy movie featuring Michael Caine), and had so many other adventures. (Colin was a great drummer but played in some terrible bands… laughs)

DL: So next up, you join The Lightning Seeds, another iconic Liverpool band, and another great songwriter that you worked with is Ian Broudie, again that band did very well nationally, that must have been a real buzz, was it nice getting some recognition and chart success after all the hard work you’d put in with your previous bands?

PH: Ian lived on the same road as me, and Mike and Ian were friends so he recommended me, and that’s how that happened. The chemistry of that band worked. That’s the most important part of a band. Not how you play or how well. Chris Sharrock on drums and Martyn Campbell on bass. We started playing small gigs and it just got bigger and bigger. I remember on a big tour, Ian turned to me and said ‘this is all for us, three tour buses full of equipment and stage props ‘. It grew that fast that I hadn’t taken it all in. We played in America and toured Europe, we performed on numerous times, and yep, achieved what you wanted to do as a kid. Again, I feel very lucky. It was weird being on TV 3 times a week, and yes it was great to get recognition, but I never enjoyed being recognized tbh.

The La’s Marquee Club 12 Nov 1987

DL: How do you think Liverpool’s music scene differs from the rest of the country, do us scousers do anything differently? Should we maybe encourage and support each other a bit more ??

PH: No idea about Liverpool, maybe there’s just something in the water and in the cultural melting pot. Everyone should encourage and support each other especially during this time.

DL: So end of the 90’s Paul and you and Mike start your record Label Viper, a label that has released a lot of important music for over 2 decades now .. what was the idea behind Viper and how do you differ from other labels ??

PH: I had reached the end of my journey with the Lightning Seeds. I had done what I had dreamed of. I had always had this idea of starting a record label, in fact, I’d had it during the scheme and toyed with releasing The La’s album. Through my Lightning Seeds connections, I could get a distribution deal meaning whatever the label released would be available worldwide. I approached Mike with this idea and with the first release being an acoustic album by Mike called ‘Volume‘, a happy Leonard Cohen type album as I called it. I always worked well with Mike and we seem destined to always work together. He’s an incredible songwriter and talent. We recorded and it did pretty well. We were up and running. We are both musicians and passionate about what we do and don’t mind going to places others wouldn’t, like the best chicken themed album you will ever hear, probably the only one too…( laughs ). Viper will continue releasing music that we think the world should hear. We’re still here after 20 years which is quite an achievement. 

DL: A few years ago Viper put out all those sessions that you played on with The La’s as a 30th-anniversary release ‘The La’s 1987‘, they sound amazing btw, was it tricky making the old recordings sound good? Pete de Freitas had some involvement in those sessions, putting them together, I personally think he’s one of the greatest drummers of all time, how did Pete end up getting involved ??

PH: The La’s 1987… Like anything you do, you get better at it (hopefully). We try to make the recordings sound the best we can and know what equipment to use, without pushing it too far so it just sounds clinical. You could take all the hiss of an old blues recording but that would dig into the sound of the track, so you need to be sympathetic. Pete de Freitas didn’t play drums on those tracks or anything, he just loved the La’s and he helped out where he could. He put the band in Echo and the Bunnymen’s studio and paid for other sessions too. I feel very honoured to have met him, Pete was a true gentleman and it upsets me to this day that he isn’t here anymore. He will never be forgotten.

The La’s marquee

DL: Into the 2000s and you record a batch of records with The Floatation Project, can you tell us a bit about that period and the players on those albums? 

PH: The Floatation Project was a completely mad idea I had. The idea was to work with a floating cast of musicians, (hence the name). I recorded all the first album (not playing much guitar I might add as I wanted to get away from playing guitar at that time as you have to take yourself out of your comfort zone every now and then) over a few weeks, and the music just fell out of me. Then I phoned people up to sing. I then mixed it and deleted it, so I could never mess with it in the future. In some ways, it was a bit like what the krautrock rock band did, in just recording everything and see what happens, except it wasn’t a band, but just me. It was an experiment. Sometimes it works and sometimes it sounds shit.

DL: You’ve played with and collaborated with so many great musicians over the last 30 odd years, Tommy Scott from Space, Pete Wilkinson from Aviator and Cast to name just a couple, you also worked on some TV theme tunes, do you enjoy keeping things fresh and moving around? You just worked on Tommy’s solo album, a great album btw, could you tell us a bit about that too ??

PH: I love Tommy to pieces. He’s an incredible songwriter and I’ve worked with him on and off for nearly 30 years now. He’s a genius and complete one-off. I played some acoustic shows with him and it sort of developed from there. Tommy had written some extra songs for those shows, I think I suggested recording an album at mine (as I have a studio in my house). We soon had all the song structures down with guitars. I then got Chris Sharrock round to play drums, Chris is a lovely fella and a true drumming genius, I can’t think of another word to describe him. Two mics over the kit and he played on 13 songs in a day without ever hearing them before! All the tracks were then loaded into Phil’s (Phil Hartley, Space’s bassist) recording computer who worked his magic.  Without Phil, it wouldn’t have sounded like it did. It is a very special album and I am proud to be part of it. The Doctors BBC1 theme tune, I think the BBC had tried everyone, so for some reason, I got the call. Could you write a piece of music that’s 30 seconds long intro wise and 40 seconds outro, no ambulance noises, and medium paced ??!!!  Your first reaction is to panic, but I quite enjoy writing to order. For some reason, those opening chords just happened. I went round to Mikes and showed him the chords. He said they are great so what if we reverse the chords for the second part?. That was it. We recorded it in Space’s studio, Leon, Space’s drummer at the time, played drums and Martyn Campbell from the Lighting Seeds played bass. There was actually a three-octave guitar melody line that went over the top but the BBC just liked the simple version.

On tour with The Lightning Seeds USA

DL: So we’re here now in 2021, how does the year ahead look for yourself and Viper, what’s in the pipeline? , and do you have advice for us on how to get through lockdown 3 ?? 

PH: I’m working on another Aviator album with Pete Wilko, (a lot of the recording is done). Pete is another talented artist. Funny how that all came about, I met Pete at John Power’s party and then bumped into him again, a week or so later. I had bought some recording equipment and didn’t know how to use it, he’d written some songs and wasn’t sure either. He came round and we started recording and that’s how the first Aviator album happened. The most difficult thing is to produce an album that has a sound all of its own, with Pete that was easy.  It’s grown from there and again privileged to feel part of something that just happened. He’s really developed as a songwriter. We just know how each other works.  I’m working on another Tommy Scott album (again the songs are written and most of the guitars done). During the lockdown, I have been writing lots and playing loads more guitar. The trick is to try to keep busy even if it turns out to be rubbish. With Viper, I’ve been working on more archive albums that feature old blues and country artists etc. You need to keep your ears and mind open to all types of music. I suppose we all have to get on with it and it’s not so bad as you are at home and being creative. I could think of worse things !!!

DL: Thank you for coming to talk to us, anything else you’d like to add?

PH: Just a big thank you for your time.

You can find more info about Viper record label on the link in pink below.

THE VIPER LABEL 

Photos credited and copyright by Paul Hemmings and Jake Summerton.