A Conversation With Leo Sayer
A Conversation With Leo Sayer.
With the world gradually emerging from a two-year hiatus, Leo Sayer will be celebrating the milestone of 50 years as a recording artist the only way he knows how – via a huge UK tour set to run between September – November 2022.
NSGs Billy Vitch recently had the pleasure to talk with him on the phone about his extensive career, His favourite memories, the upcoming tour and much, much more.
It’s 11 am here in Liverpool and I’m about to call a true British and international icon, the one man band that is Leo Sayer, to say I’m excited is an understatement. A man whose illustrious career has spanned 5 decades with numerous hit singles and albums and whose songs have been covered by some of the most iconic artists this century from Dolly Parton, Celine Dion, Luther Vandross, Julio Iglesias and Rod Stewart to name but a few.
His army of hit singles include Thunder In My Heart, The Show Must Go On, One Man Band, Moonlighting, You Make Me Feel Like Dancing, How Much Love, I Can’t Stop Loving You, More Than I Can Say and the timeless When I Need You.
Racking up millions of album sales, transatlantic No.1 singles (as well as numerous GRAMMY and BASCA awards) he is currently racing to the top of the dance charts again with a new Armand van Helden re-working of his 2006 UK No.1 single with Meck, “Thunder In My Heart Again“.
During the lockdown period while Leo was at home in Australia he was extremely active, spending a lot of time recording and releasing new singles – My City In Lockdown and How Did We Get Here? – as well as collaborating on the tribute single to his friend and late-guitarist, Al Hodge, by recording Al’s classic track Tradewinds. He also found time to self-produce a new album – Northern Songs, his own take on songs written & composed by John Lennon, Paul McCartney & George Harrison which is out now on CD and vinyl.
BILLY: Good morning Leo and how are you?
LEO: I’ve had a bit of a sleepless night I must admit, it’s this funny old weather, but it’s lovely, isn’t it? I’m in England right now, in Brentford and I’ve already done three shows in Ireland, which we did about a week and a half ago. And yeh, just spending some time here, getting ready for the British tour.
BILLY: So you just announced your 50th-anniversary tour that kicks off at the end of this month on the 20th of Sept at Truro’s Hall for Cornwall to celebrate 50 years as a recording artist… Can you remember your childhood much and if so was this something you could have ever imagined or envisaged? Like 50 years being one of the most prolific artists of this century is not something most mortals will ever achieve, how do you feel about it all?
LEO: Well, I think if you ask any of my peers, nobody would ever believe that in the time when we came up, which was 1971 1972. You know, and it is 50 years from 1970. It is last year from when I became Leo, but it was 50 years this year from you know, the first successes. So the Roger Daltrey album and recording Yeah, but look, we never envisaged that we’ll be going this long. I don’t think it’s just me. I mean, there’s a classic interview with Mick Jagger, who said, I think we will be big for about five years, you know? So we’re all like that, I think really surprised, but it’s been a fantastic journey although it’s had its ups and downs. On the current tour we go right back to 1972 cos we finish the show with two songs from the Daltry album and I think that’s going to be very pertinent to that time because it was right at this time in late summer that the Daltrey album came out and was a big success and that sort of like, you know, told the world about me. Thanks to Roger, for giving me massive publicity by telling the world that you should hear this guy sing and that was fantastic.
BILLY: This tour includes 32 dates, that’s a hell of a lot, how does it feel to be back performing live after the 2-year lockdown? Did you ever think we’d get back to live shows?
LEO: No, I don’t think I did. I think it was pretty grim. I mean during the pandemic a lot of lives got lost, and a lot of people got permanently sick. And you know, my fear of getting it, I’m terrified, being a singer and all. You know, you just don’t want to get long COVID, do you? At 74 years of age, you worry but look, here we are now and everything’s okay. My energy is good. I think of the 35 shows to do as just plain work really. I mean, if I place pace myself, I make sure I get enough sleep. I’m touring with a lovely bunch of people. I’m a very relaxed person these days, I don’t stress, you know and deal with it like it’s a fun thing to do as well. That’s very important, I think It’s great to have this opportunity to entertain people again.
BILLY: Can you remember your first ever performance? If so what and where was it?
LEO: Oh, God. I don’t think I can really. I remember some pretty crappy gigs early on. Supporting people like Brinsley Schwarz and Procol Harum and being very much out of my depth, but learning as you go, you know, I remember a gig, very pertinently, the first gig after dumping the clown, The Pierrot and playing Crystal Palace Bowl supporting Rick Wakeman, and Procol Harum as well and being in absolute fear because now they could see my face. Can you imagine, you know, all this time you’ve hidden because it was easy with the mask, they wouldn’t know it’s me most of the time anyway. I mean, I used to kind of walk around in the states and nobody would recognise me, then suddenly, to be that naked, and you’re in the big Crystal Palace bowl that was massive, so yeah that was the first time I think I ever felt nervous, up to then I’d never really sort of worried about it. Although that kind of period was over pretty quickly. I pretty much got used to it. This is silly. I mean, I used to be sick, before every show and thinking, Oh, no, you can’t go on like this. This is stupid. Okay, let’s get on with it.
BILLY: It must be hard for anyone, It’s a culture shock at first I guess?
LEO: It is it’s a total shock. It’s a changing of your life, you know and you can carry all those doubts and lack of self-confidence around with you or get on with it. I mean, my song “Long Tall Glasses” is all about the getting of confidence, you know, the guy first starts off saying, I can’t dance, I can’t go on. Then when everybody tells him he’s great he goes, Yeah, I suppose I am really? Haha Yeah, and there is a lot of that, you win your confidence. But now, I wouldn’t say easy, because it’s still hard work up there because I’m singing a lot of songs still in the same original keys. So it’s a reach to get there. You know, the first part of the act is really like a voice conditioning that goes on. But once I get up there, it’s just there.
BILLY: You’ve been in British music culture from the beginning of time lol, what was your favourite era in this? Like to me your synonyms with the 70s and 80s, a soundtrack to a generation and have been prolific throughout, do you have a favourite time period in all of this and if so why?
LEO: Um, no, not really, because I very much am a person who lives in the now. I’m very much kind of thinking about what I’m doing this week and onwards. I mean, of course, I’m the curator of my career. Nobody else is going to do it. I’ve just finished my book and I’m just about to get that published soon. It’s called “Just A Boy” and it’s the True Life Adventures of Leo Sayer, as written by Gerard Hugh Sayer (My real name) as it’s only him who can really write it, the other guy is just a star haha. You know this guy’s the normal one so he’s writing in a very normal way about it all.
BILLY: You have had some amazing artists cover your songs, from Cliff Richard to the Who’s Rodger Daltry, you wrote a lot for Roger Daltry on his album “Daltry” didn’t you? A favourite of mine is your song “One Man Band”, I mentioned it to a friend and they were shocked you wrote it. What cover are you most proud of?
LEO: Oh, there’s been some good ones. I mean, Dolly Parton did a version of a song called “Fool For Your Love“, which was pretty cool. I wrote with Michael Omartian who was also the producer for Christopher Cross, and then Tina Turner covered a song and I covered Phil Collins, “Can’t Stop Loving You” not my song and then Taylor Swift did it and then Celine Dion before that did “When I Need You” and Luther Vandross, Julio Iglesias and Rod Stewart. Yeah. So I don’t know you. I never intended to write songs for other people. I mean, I was always very much a kind of singer-songwriter who was trying to describe his life rather like James Taylor, or, you know, those kinds of artists, Jackson Browne say, but then when people do cover your songs, and they make a good job of it, it’s fantastically uplifting.
BILLY: It must give you a personal feeling of validation that the song was actually decent for someone to cover it?
LEO: Yeah, exactly, well my first hit was “The Show Must Go On” and that was covered in America by “Three Dog Night“ and that went to number one in the States for them. So I mean, the first, the very first record I had out, the first real proper single, there was a cover immediately, you know, so somebody picked that up. So yeah, it is a validation.
BILLY: So I’m gonna ask you a random little question here, In January 1967, when you were 18 you were working as a porter at the King’s Hotel in Hove, you helped rescue some elderly guests from a fire in the hotel. What’s the story, do you remember this event well?
LEO: Well, I was I was a graphic designer and I couldn’t get professional work at the time. They used to put you onto an agency, the unemployment people were you’d go on to a professional agency, and they then try and get you a job in your field. But it was very difficult in those days, because, you know at the time there weren’t many graphic designers needed. I mean, everybody who was good at that kind of job, made sure that they were either self-employed or had a job. So I had to go and do jobs like kitchen Porter. I was a hall porter in the King’s Hotel in Hove, just by the Brighton West Pier when all of a sudden a fire broke out during a toy fair exhibition that they had put on called the Brighton Toy Fair. They put an exhibition on in the place. I was the go-between of a lovely couple, Mr Derek Politi of Politi’s Turkish Delight, a very famous delicacy in those days. He was there with a Mrs Louis and I was the go-between for them. They were two people that I was really fond of. So when the fire took hold, I aimed to try and save their lives. But honestly, they didn’t want to be saved. I managed to rescue about five or six people. But I saw I saw another four people die, including my friends, my god it was a real rite of passage moment, you know, also, it was started deliberately as an insurance job and I found that out as the thing went on. So, you know, moments like that can mark you and can make you really push for justice. Do you know what I mean? So I found my moral responsibility very early. And it was an interesting thing to happen, but it was also very tragic.
BILLY: So how integral do you feel David Courtney and Adam Faith were in their moulding of the Leo Sayer that we got?
LEO: On a lighter note, haha, yeah, fantastic. I mean, Adam had so much clout in the business, the day that I signed up for him to be my manager. I met him before that, of course, because he had previously told us that he loved the songs that David and were writing, now, he was involved with David because David used to play drums for him in his band at one time, so that was the connection. Anyway, the day that I signed with him, he took me to the RAC club in London, and out of a door walks Paul McCartney. And you know, I mean, it’s just too much. What do you ask him? And he said, look, I’ll give you one piece of advice. He said, Don’t cut ya hair! So I didn’t. And that’s it.
BILLY: So is that why you kept with what became seen as your trademark afro?
LEO: I think I was gonna do that anyway but it was a bloody good endorsement hay!
BILLY: Do you ever cut your hair? Like is it still pretty much like the afro we know you for?
LEO: Yeah, I cut it myself every so often these days but I’ve still got the mane of hair. Oh, God. Yes. That’s how I became Leo because Adam Faith’s wife would say with the mane of hair I looked like Leo The Lion from a black and white cartoon that used to be on the TV as well. And David, of course, you know, who I’ve reworked with many, many times in my career, I mean, we went back and did an album called “HERE” in 79 and then when I recorded with producer Arif Mardin in 1983, he and I wrote the title song of the album “World Radio” and a load of other things. So we’ve always been in touch, you know.
BILLY: It totally blows me away, like how prolific you’ve been, because you can read up on stuff, but then when you hear it from the horse’s mouth, you’re, oh my God, you’ve done so much.
LEO: Well I now write by myself, but I’ve had some wonderful co-writers, and some amazing producers and, you know, I’ve learned from some of the best like Barry Mann who wrote “You’ve Lost That Loving Feeling” and writing songs with him is incredible and with Tom Snow, with “Thunder In My Heart” and many other songs and Alan Tarney, an absolute genius, who’s behind artists like A-ha, and Cliff Richard. So I’ve written with some of the best, David included. I just love writing songs and I love composing that.
BILLY: So you get most of your musical pleasure from the writing and composing?
LEO: Yeah! I think the dichotomy of that, and the live show, those are the two things that I love and nowadays, I produce myself, I love making records, as well. So creating a record, creating something from scratch is really like a blank sheet of paper when there’s nothing there before you dream of a song and make a record. Making something up from nothing is the real thrill.
BILLY; The music industry has changed a lot in the past 50 years. All the things like TikTok and Spotify making it harder for artists to make a living in the conventional way. How do you feel about the whole change in the dynamics and the impact It’s having on artists?
LEO: Luckily, I’m in a brilliant position, I can ignore it haha. I mean, it doesn’t affect me really, there’s always someone saying, Oh, why don’t you make a record with Dua Lipa you know or Coldplay, but why, I’ve got my own thing. For me, there are about 3 young three young artists that I’m developing and working with and I love all that side. I’m not ignoring the new music, it’s just very different to me. I just focus on my own stuff.
BILLY: Do you think it’s harder now though for artists to try and even make a living from music?
LEO: Put it like this, it’s still as crooked the music business as it ever was. Young artists still get ripped off, going on TV shows like in the voice and all those shows, they get talked into signing up ridiculous contracts that will hold them, if possible for life, you know. So there’s that side of it. But the other side of it is that there seem to be so many committees and other people involved. I mean, behind a Taylor Swift record there are about 50 different people. Yeah, I’m I come from a cottage industry where its either four lads like The Beatles or else me and a songwriter
BILLY: It kinda feels like it kills the creativity when they have a system like that in place.
LEO: I think so. But you know, I could be wrong, because a lot of these acts have fantastic success and look at someone like Elton John, who’s working with every new kid on the block, and seems to be creatively inspired, as does Paul McCartney. And why shouldn’t they? You know, there’s nothing wrong with that.
BILLY: So a fun question. If you could sit down with any artists from history dead or alive and write a song, who would it be with?
LEO: Well, my big hero is Bob Dylan and second to that is Van Morrison but I don’t think I could write with them. I think that they’ve got their own thing and I’ve got my own thing and I’m that guy in the song, the one man band but I’m happy with that. These days I like writing and working by myself and it seems to be working, people seem to like what I’m doing, you know, like with this new Beatles record “Northern Songs: Leo Sayer Sings The Beatles” the northern songs tribute album, you know, nobody’s behind me kind of collaborating or telling me what to do and I’m in this nice kind of vacuum where I’m able to kind of absorb the world around me. And all those influences and the fans, of course, I can kind of read what they would like me to do. So that’s what I’m trying to fulfil and I feel that there’s lots to come, you know, really lots and lots to come.
BILLY: You’re going to be in Liverpool on this tour, so we’re gonna be there.
LEO: Looking forward to it. It’s gonna be great, man. Lovely talking to you.
To get a chance to see Leo Sayer on the tour that covers 32 dates across the UK click on the link below for tickets and more
